================================================ Subject: Re: The Fortress From: "King_Dovregubben" To: Date: Tue 28 Aug 2001 00:19:27 -0700 ================================================ Jim didn't even know the names of the products he was slamming. That's the quality of the information he was posting. > -----Original Message----- > From: Creed Discussion List > [mailto:CREED-DISCUSS@WINDUPLIST.COM] On Behalf Of Tara > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:04 PM > To: CREED-DISCUSS@WINDUPLIST.COM > Subject: Re: The Fortress > > > Remember, though, that Jim is an avid... umm... "unsupporter" > of MSN. A lot of the information he receives is probably > also from people and sites that are against MSN... there's a > difference between purposefully putting out false information > and making a mistake. I don't know what claims were made on > either side, who was wrong or right, and what proofs each > side had (like I said, I deleted most of those threads), and > I really don't care. Arguing about operating systems is one > thing, while searching for any petty little reason to pick > apart someone is another. (And for the record, I'm not > saying you did that, Debbi, just attempting to make a point). > The way I see this whole thing is like a group of playground > bullies ganging up on one kid because they don't like the > shoes he's wearing, and because the kid had the gall to say > that he likes his shoes better than the shoes that the > bullies are wearing. I can understand you having some loyalty > for the place that pays your bills, but realize that one > person's opinion and thoughts aren't going to change the > minds of the masses. I like Jim, but I'm not planning on > dumping Windows because he doesn't like it. My computer came > with W95, I upgraded to 98, I hosted for Microsoft Chat for > two years... there are things I both like and dislike about > MS, but I'm not going to stop using their products because a > friend of mine doesn't like them. I think that MS has enough > clients that Jim's comments to this list, whether said > comments are true or false, aren't going to break them. > Another "for the record": I'm not trying to provoke another > argument, or continue the OS wars argument, I'm just trying > to defend someone whom I happen to like and who is generally > a pretty decent guy with some interesting thoughts and ideas. Tara > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Debbi R > To: > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 10:26 PM > Subject: Re: The Fortress > > > > I don't disagree with you, Tara, and I only speak for myself, but > > understand that the first time an incorrect statement was > made and at > > the first sign of absolutely baseless suppositions came > onto the list, > > I felt personally attacked. It's known on this list that I > work for > > Microsoft. When I experience someone spreading falsehoods > about the > > company that I work for, I feel compelled to do what I have > to do to > > protect myself and my job and make sure that people watching the > > conversation understand the comments for what they are. > > > > Don't get me wrong, I don't take my loyalty to an extreme. > There are > > many things about Microsoft that I don't like. But things like > > somehow requiring customers to sign contracts for new operating > > systems and then forcing them to upgrade simply because of that > > contract isn't one of them. This isn't personal against Jim, but > > rather anyone who puts out this information without any credible > > sources to back up the claim. Hell, he didn't offer any sources at > > all. > > > > > > Just my 2 cents. > > > > DebbiR > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Creed Discussion List > [mailto:CREED-DISCUSS@WINDUPLIST.COM] On > > > Behalf Of Tara > > > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 7:17 PM > > > To: CREED-DISCUSS@WINDUPLIST.COM > > > Subject: Re: The Fortress > > > > > > > > > Alright, this is where I resort to "I've been on this list for a > > > long time, and..." I've been on this list for a long > time, and seen > > > a lot of listers come and go. I know also that Jim has > been around > > > longer than I have (something like 4 years?), and in the > time I've > > > been here, I can't recall EVER seeing him in an argument > with anyone > > > until this topic started up. If I remember right, Jim > was actually > > > one of the first people to welcome me to the list. I've > also never > > > seen him make personal attacks towards anyone until just > > > recently... and while I agree that a certain comment he made > > > was uncalled for, I also think he's taken a lot of abuse from > > > other listers the last couple of weeks. He doesn't like MS, > > > and voices his opinion on it... so what? I admit that I > > > deleted a lot of the posts related to the argument, but I > > > think the general idea was that he was making possibly > > > incorrect statements... again, so what? I can think of > > > several people on this list who don't know what they're > > > talking about, and no one gangs up on them and tries to make > > > them look like idiots... (excluding Jon, of course...) I > > > guess what I'm trying to get at is, regardless of who's wrong > > > or right, I think that perhaps both sides should just back > > > off... when it goes so far as to cause a long time list > > > member to consider leaving, when he's made it past the > > > hundreds of other arguments that have occurred on here, then > > > it's gone too far. I basically just don't understand what the > > > fight's about. Can't everyone just agree to disagree on this > > > topic, and let it go? (For real this time). I'd hate to see > > > Jim leave, he's made a lot of good posts in the past, and the > > > list wouldn't be the same without him. Apparently some > > > people just got off on the wrong foot with him, without > > > realizing that there's more than just a dislike and distrust > > > of MSN there. > > > *sings* "All we are saying... is give peace a chance..." > > > Tara > > > > > > > To unsubscribe or change your preferences for the > Creed-Discuss list, > visit: > > http://www.winduplist.com/ls/discuss/form.asp > > To unsubscribe or change your preferences for the > Creed-Discuss list, visit: > http://www.winduplist.com/ls/discuss/form.asp > To unsubscribe or change your preferences for the Creed-Discuss list, visit: http://www.winduplist.com/ls/discuss/form.asp