================================================ Subject: Re: The Fortress From: "Kevin L. Brown" To: Date: Mon 27 Aug 2001 21:45:31 -0700 ================================================ He claimed he was going to start checking his "facts" first. And then proceeded not to. He was given ample opportunity to actually research his lies first. He refused. The only possible conclusion is he doesn't care who he defames. And in return, he's getting trounced by people who do care about facts. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tara" To: Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:03 PM Subject: Re: The Fortress > Remember, though, that Jim is an avid... umm... "unsupporter" of MSN. A lot > of the information he receives is probably also from people and sites that > are against MSN... there's a difference between purposefully putting out > false information and making a mistake. I don't know what claims were made > on either side, who was wrong or right, and what proofs each side had (like > I said, I deleted most of those threads), and I really don't care. Arguing > about operating systems is one thing, while searching for any petty little > reason to pick apart someone is another. (And for the record, I'm not > saying you did that, Debbi, just attempting to make a point). The way I see > this whole thing is like a group of playground bullies ganging up on one kid > because they don't like the shoes he's wearing, and because the kid had the > gall to say that he likes his shoes better than the shoes that the bullies > are wearing. > I can understand you having some loyalty for the place that pays your bills, > but realize that one person's opinion and thoughts aren't going to change > the minds of the masses. I like Jim, but I'm not planning on dumping > Windows because he doesn't like it. My computer came with W95, I upgraded > to 98, I hosted for Microsoft Chat for two years... there are things I both > like and dislike about MS, but I'm not going to stop using their products > because a friend of mine doesn't like them. I think that MS has enough > clients that Jim's comments to this list, whether said comments are true or > false, aren't going to break them. > Another "for the record": I'm not trying to provoke another argument, or > continue the OS wars argument, I'm just trying to defend someone whom I > happen to like and who is generally a pretty decent guy with some > interesting thoughts and ideas. > Tara > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Debbi R > To: > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 10:26 PM > Subject: Re: The Fortress > > > > I don't disagree with you, Tara, and I only speak for myself, but > > understand that the first time an incorrect statement was made and at > > the first sign of absolutely baseless suppositions came onto the list, I > > felt personally attacked. It's known on this list that I work for > > Microsoft. When I experience someone spreading falsehoods about the > > company that I work for, I feel compelled to do what I have to do to > > protect myself and my job and make sure that people watching the > > conversation understand the comments for what they are. > > > > Don't get me wrong, I don't take my loyalty to an extreme. There are > > many things about Microsoft that I don't like. But things like somehow > > requiring customers to sign contracts for new operating systems and then > > forcing them to upgrade simply because of that contract isn't one of > > them. This isn't personal against Jim, but rather anyone who puts out > > this information without any credible sources to back up the claim. > > Hell, he didn't offer any sources at all. > > > > > > Just my 2 cents. > > > > DebbiR > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Creed Discussion List > > > [mailto:CREED-DISCUSS@WINDUPLIST.COM] On Behalf Of Tara > > > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 7:17 PM > > > To: CREED-DISCUSS@WINDUPLIST.COM > > > Subject: Re: The Fortress > > > > > > > > > Alright, this is where I resort to "I've been on this list > > > for a long time, and..." I've been on this list for a long > > > time, and seen a lot of listers come and go. I know also > > > that Jim has been around longer than I have (something like 4 > > > years?), and in the time I've been here, I can't recall EVER > > > seeing him in an argument with anyone until this topic > > > started up. If I remember right, Jim was actually one of the > > > first people to welcome me to the list. I've also never seen > > > him make personal attacks towards anyone until just > > > recently... and while I agree that a certain comment he made > > > was uncalled for, I also think he's taken a lot of abuse from > > > other listers the last couple of weeks. He doesn't like MS, > > > and voices his opinion on it... so what? I admit that I > > > deleted a lot of the posts related to the argument, but I > > > think the general idea was that he was making possibly > > > incorrect statements... again, so what? I can think of > > > several people on this list who don't know what they're > > > talking about, and no one gangs up on them and tries to make > > > them look like idiots... (excluding Jon, of course...) I > > > guess what I'm trying to get at is, regardless of who's wrong > > > or right, I think that perhaps both sides should just back > > > off... when it goes so far as to cause a long time list > > > member to consider leaving, when he's made it past the > > > hundreds of other arguments that have occurred on here, then > > > it's gone too far. I basically just don't understand what the > > > fight's about. Can't everyone just agree to disagree on this > > > topic, and let it go? (For real this time). I'd hate to see > > > Jim leave, he's made a lot of good posts in the past, and the > > > list wouldn't be the same without him. Apparently some > > > people just got off on the wrong foot with him, without > > > realizing that there's more than just a dislike and distrust > > > of MSN there. > > > *sings* "All we are saying... is give peace a chance..." > > > Tara > > > > > > > To unsubscribe or change your preferences for the Creed-Discuss list, > visit: > > http://www.winduplist.com/ls/discuss/form.asp > > To unsubscribe or change your preferences for the Creed-Discuss list, visit: > http://www.winduplist.com/ls/discuss/form.asp > To unsubscribe or change your preferences for the Creed-Discuss list, visit: http://www.winduplist.com/ls/discuss/form.asp