================================================ Subject: Re: General "Survey 1 of 2" Stuff From: "Kevin L. Brown" To: Date: Sat 4 Aug 2001 14:22:31 -0700 ================================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackson Crawford" > Er...I can see that we're off to a REALLY bad start here, Kevin... Yes, I typically get off to a bad start when someone wraps themselves in a flag that stands for freedom, and then goes off about how terrible it is that Hispanics try it. > When did I use the term "Hispanic invasion?" >>My kith fought and died to free Texas from Mexico in the 1830's and from the U.S. in the 1860's - which haunts me, 'cause it seems like a lost cause, especially if this damned "open border" crap with Mexico gets passed.<< "this damned open border crap". Sounds like you're talking about an invasion of Hispanics to me. Maybe that's not the way you meant it, but that's absolutely the way you said it. > I have several Hispanic friends Ah, the standard "get out of racism free" card. I can't be a racist, I have friends! Keith has stupid friends, doesn't mean he's not stupid! (Hi, Keith!) > Illegal immigration is tearing away and will > continue to tear away at the economy by flooding it with too many people who > should be elsewhere. Immigrant labor (legal and illegal) has held Texas together for decades. You're insane if you think it's detrimental. The south Texas orchards couldn't survive without it. Texas' economy would be similar to Mississippi w/o it. > And look at how everything's starting to be written in > English and Spanish in Texas and across the Southwest. That's just catering > to illegal aliens. > This nation has ONE national language Oh? Please cite a legal source for that. Oh, and once the majority in the US speak Spanish, I suppose you'll support that "one national language" being Spanish? Majority rules, democracy, and all those false notions... > and it should stay that way or face the terrible consequences of a nation split down the middle > betwixt those who have a legal right to be here and those who just walked > right in. And damn those that came legally but don't speak English, right? See, you're doing it again. Also note that you're aligning yourselves with "Texians" who came from outside the borders of Mexico, came into Texas and helped overthrow the existing government. Funny how you're now defending the Mexican possition when it owned Texas. > My use of "Anglo" is just that which you can find in any textbook or > dictionary: descendants of Englishmen. Strike two. First your definition of Texian turns out to be vastly incorrect, now this. http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=anglo In contemporary American usage, Anglo is used primarily in direct contrast to Hispanic or Latino. In this context it is not limited to persons of English or even British descent, but can be generally applied to any non-Hispanic white person. Thus in parts of the United States with large Hispanic populations, an American of Polish, Irish, or German heritage might be termed an Anglo just as readily as a person of English descent. However, in parts of the country where the Hispanic community is smaller or nonexistent, or in areas where ethnic distinctions among European groups remain strong, Anglo has little currency as a catch-all term for non-Hispanic whites. Your use of the term "Anglo" in the context of anti-immigrant is 100% bigoted. Again, you may not have intended for it to come across this way, but it has. That's what I meant when I said I hope someday you realize how you sound. > "Longs for the days of killing invading Mexicans?!?" What the fuck?! Back > this up a second, when did I say a thing about killing any one? As before: >>My kith fought and died to free Texas from Mexico in the 1830's << > My definition of "Texian" is the exact same one that my family has used for > 150 years or so. It is equally applicable to the descendants of any Blacks, > Mexicans, whatever, that fought to free Texas from Mexico. And it's wrong. http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/print/TT/pft5.html TEXIAN. The term Texian is generally used to apply to a citizen of the Anglo-American section of the province of Coahuila and Texasqv or of the Republic of Texas.qv Texian was used in 1835 as part of the title of the Nacogdoches Texian and Emigrant's Guide.qv As president of the Republic, Mirabeau B. Lamarqv used the term to foster nationalism. Early colonists and leaders in the Texas Revolution,qv many of whom were influential during the Civil Warqv and who were respected as elder statesmen well into the 1880s, used Texian in English and Texienne in French. However, in general usage after annexation,qv Texanqv replaced Texian. The Texas Almanacqv still used the term Texian as late as 1868. http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/txweb/txwebmain.htm TEXIAN. A word (in Spanish Tejano) describing both male and female citizens or the culture of the former province of Tejas, New Spain, the Texas section of the state of Coahuila y Tejas, Republic of Mexico, and the subsequent Republic of Texas. Government officials including Miguel Ramos Arispe, author of the Mexican Constitution of 1824, referred to the residents of Texas as Tejanos. President of the Texas Republic, Mirabeau B. Lamar, used the term Texian to promote national pride. The current term Texan eventually replaced both terms after annexation Add these to the one I gave you earlier. The Texian Web, The Texas Historical Commision, The Texian History Organization and dozens of others say you're wrong. And as always, I don't hold this against you personally. I just want you to realize that the things you've posted to this list (taken only as written as no one truly knows you personally) are very bigoted. You may be parrotting things you've heard all your life and you may not really believe any of what it really means, but when you say it, we can only assume you do mean it. To unsubscribe or change your preferences for the Creed-Discuss list, visit: http://www.winduplist.com/ls/discuss/form.asp