================================================ Subject: Re: RELIGIOUS TALK AND ALL!!!!! From: "Tara" To: Date: Thu 10 May 2001 22:14:34 -0400 ================================================ Actually, I'm not trying to force my beliefs on anyone... I'm expressing my opinions. If you agree with me, great, if you don't, then tell me why you don't. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I don't assume that my "truth" is the truth for everyone. I love a good debate, but like Lee mentioned, it really sucks when it turns into personal attacks. My OPINION is that Christians oftentimes try to convert others to their beliefs, because they feel it's what they're supposed to do. I've had Christians tell me that God commanded them to go out and spread the word, or to spread the truth. In my recent dealings with Christians, what I usually hear is "It's not my opinion, it's the truth". But for something to be truth, it has to be provable. With religion, not much is provable... someone can say "It's in the Bible". Well, what if I don't believe the Bible is a true story? It just kind of goes around in circles. When I ask for proof of something, what I usually hear is "It's a matter of faith". However, to me faith isn't proof. And I can't force myself to have faith in something I don't. If I really wanted to be a hypocrite, I would claim to have faith that God exists, just to make my life easier. One of my best friends happens to have a very strong Christian faith, so it's not that I dislike Christians. I dislike people who say one thing and then do another, or people who say "This is the only correct way to think". My friend has a strong, but quiet, faith. She openly expresses her ideas on her faith, and I know she hopes that eventually I'll come to believe what she believes in, but she doesn't push it. She tries to show me her ideals by example, not by telling me I'm going to go to hell if I don't believe in her god. I'm sorry to hear about your friend passing away, trust me, I know how rough it is losing someone. I also recognize your e-mail addy as someone who's been on the list a while, and I know you don't usually go off on people. Don't worry, I almost never hold a grudge... and I certainly won't against you just because you were expressing your opinion. Plus, you did it in a much nicer manner than often happens during disagreements on the list. I still disagree with the "hypocrite" label, just because I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and I don't say that my opinions and beliefs are necessarily the truth... they're just what's going on in my mind at this time. If you're a Christian, then your faith will probably help you through the loss of your friend, though I know it's never easy. When my friend (the Christian's) brother passed away at the age of 25, she was very upset over losing her brother, but was able to console herself with the belief that he had passed on to a better place. If you have the same beliefs, I hope that they give you strength and comfort. Tara ----- Original Message ----- From: NC To: Tara ; NC ; Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 9:59 PM Subject: Re: Re: RELIGIOUS TALK AND ALL!!!!! > I am saying ur a hypocrit by going around saying that > Christians try to put thier beliefs on everyone, but > yet u r doing the same thing. U r trying to put what u > believe in on everyone. But when christians do itu say > it is wrong. but when u do it, it is okay. But I > didn't mean to be all rude. I usually am not like > that. I am just having a tough time right now with my > family and all. My best friend had just passed away, > so I am just trying to put it all on someone. So, > sorry for my out burst I am just going through a > really tough time right now. > > --- Tara wrote: > > Actually, what I specifically said is "it just seems > > to me that there's a > > fairly high percentage of people who call themselves > > Christian, but then > > don't behave in the manner the Bible says they > > should." Key statement being > > "seems to me", which should be a clear enough > > explanation that the statement > > is my opinion, not a fact. You cannot dispute my > > personal experiences with > > Christians. If my experience has been such that > > most Christians I've been > > in contact with break the Commandments more than the > > pagans I know, you > > cannot tell me that my experiences are mistaken. > > You (or anyone else) > > cannot honestly say that someone else's opinions are > > wrong. Your opinion > > may be that my opinion is wrong, but that doesn't > > make it a fact. I also > > didn't call anyone a hypocrite by name, and even > > stated that "I'm sure a lot > > of Christians DO practice what they preach", so why > > are you getting so upset > > by my post? "How the hell would u know if u aren't > > even a Christian?" > > Well, let's see... it doesn't really take one to > > know one... and even if it > > did, I was raised as a Christian, and made my > > decision that I didn't agree > > with it after years of following Christianity. In > > fact, the hypocritical > > behavior of some Christians is partly what > > influenced my decision to stop > > following the beliefs I was raised with and to start > > asking questions. One > > more thing... why don't you point out to me where I > > was a hypocrite at? > > Because I don't see that anywhere in my post. > > Tara > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: NC > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 7:47 PM > > Subject: Re: RELIGIOUS TALK AND ALL!!!!! > > > > > > > K, Tara what r u talking about that a "high > > percentage > > > of Christians" how the hell would u know if u > > aren't > > > even a Christian? That doesn't make any sense. so > > > don't go around calling people hypocrits, unless > > you > > > have some real true facts. and can prove that a > > high > > > percentage of christians are hypocrits. That > > digusts > > > me the way ppl stereo type other ppl. Just how > > > everyone is sick and tired of all these ppl > > > stereo-typing CREED as a Christian band when they > > are > > > not. So, do me a favour and stop being a hypocrit > > > yourself!!!! > > > > > > --- Tara wrote: > > > > If you don't like that some people are "dissing" > > > > other people's gods, > > > > perhaps you should look at it this way... for > > the > > > > people who are atheist on > > > > this list and are being judged for that, they're > > > > also having their beliefs > > > > "dissed". It goes both ways. However, > > Christians > > > > are generally (generally, > > > > not always) the people who try to preach love > > for > > > > god and following the > > > > commandments... how is it Christian to call > > someone > > > > an asshole because they > > > > disagree with you? What happened to "turn the > > other > > > > cheek"? I don't > > > > consider myself a Christian, yet I would never > > call > > > > someone an asshole > > > > simply because they expressed an opinion that I > > > > don't agree with. I'm not > > > > speaking for all Christians, but in my personal > > > > experiences, I would say > > > > that I have higher moral standards than a lot of > > > > people who go to church > > > > every Sunday and profess themselves to be > > Christian. > > > > Difference is, > > > > although a lot of my beliefs are close to what's > > in > > > > the Bible, I behave the > > > > way I do because I feel it's the right thing to > > do, > > > > not because I'm afraid > > > > I'll go to hell if I don't. I have nothing > > against > > > > people of any religion > > > > simply because of their beliefs, but I do have a > > > > problem with hypocrites. > > > > And let me reiterate, I do not believe that all > > > > Christians are hypocrites, > > > > it just seems to me that there's a fairly high > > > > percentage of people who call > > > > themselves Christian, but then don't behave in > > the > > > > manner the Bible says > > > > they should. I'm sure that there are also a lot > > of > > > > Christians who DO > > > > practice what they preach. > > > > *Done with the rant for now* > > > > > > > > Tara > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To unsubscribe or change your preferences for the Creed-Discuss list, visit: http://www.winduplist.com/ls/discuss/form.asp