I just e-mailed Ed Kiang with some suggestions for the problems we're having, and he made an interesting point in his response... hotmail and MSN add signature blocks to any mail sent out, which means that the unsub request may have an error. To explain further, have you ever noticed that when someone sends you mail from, say, hotmail, there's a little advertisement type thing at the bottom, that says something like "Get your FREE e-mail account from hotmail.com" or something similar to that? Well, when you send commands to listserv, the only thing that's supposed to be in the message body is the command. Since hotmail (and some other mail programs) add this signature line on AFTER you send your mail, there's nothing the person sending it can do about it, and it creates an error in the command. So that's probably the trouble people have been having with the error messages when they're apparently doing everything correctly. He did say that he was working on removing people manually, so my suggestion to those people who don't want all these e-mails, is to put the address Creed-discuss@winduplist.com in your blocked senders list, then everything will be automatically sent to your deleted items folder. I would suggest, if you haven't done so already, sending one short message to Ed Kiang requesting that he remove you from the list... and please be nice, remember that he has to take these hundreds (?) of people off of the list manually. So, if you're using a mail program that adds a message line, try to be patient, and you should be off the list soon.