================================================ Subject: Re: Infighting From: "Tara" To: Date: Fri 15 Feb 2002 23:07:31 -0500 ================================================ Actually, I don't think Jim was ever involved in a single argument, as attacker or attackee, until about 8 months ago. I had never seen him be anything but nice to everyone else until he started getting attacked for his views, and for not backing up his statements. Maybe the reason that he might egg certain people on is because the first argument I ever saw him involved in was with those certain people. However, since I happen to be relatively friendly with both sides of that particular case, I'm going to leave it at that, because I definitely DO NOT want that argument to start back up again. This list has been accused of being 'cliquey' many times in the past, but this is the first time since I joined that I'd agree with that statement. I get the impression of newbies being forcefully shoved away from the group (to use your analogy), instead of anyone giving them the benefit of the doubt. Rather than saying that the new people should wait before posting anything to the list, why shouldn't we all just be patient with them for the first week or two they're on? As far as the To line topic... list responses being sent privately happens a lot, especially with new people. Most of the people who receive them will simply forward them with a "I think you meant for this to go to the list" and an explanation of how to go about doing so. If you've responded to mailing lists with "Reply" 1,000 times, and then you join up on this list, you might not even bother looking at the to line, going on the assumption that it'll work the way just about every other mailing list out there works... it's just a habit. When I hit "Reply" on an e-mail from my mom, my assumption is that it'll be her address, and only her address, in the to line, and not send to my sister too. Just an example... might not be too clear, but hey, I'm trying! It's the same thing with the footers with the unsubscribe info. I'm so used to seeing "Sign up for hotmail!" and "Yahoo mail rocks!" and other assorted spam down there that I usually don't pay attention to the bottom of the mails. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Earles" To: Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Infighting | Yes. I agree. I also know that the way the reply command is structured on | this list is flawed. Reply, on most e-mail lists, sends replies back to the | list and Reply All sends to the list and sends a copy to the individual. | While this list is flawed in that regard, I can only assume that the person | hitting Reply can READ the contents of the "To:" line and recognize whether | this is the action they wish to take. | | > There's no reason to bash Jim | > relentlessly when he hasn't even been involved in the discussion at hand. | | I think Jim gets picked on a lot because he makes himself an easy target. He | also has a tendency to be extremely annoying to certain people to the point | of (I believe knowingly) egging them on. I don't necessarily get a bad vibe | from him, but I do find him to be arrogant to a degree that is incongruent | to his ability (or concession) to articulate his thoughts and ideas. | | > There's no reason to start a fight with a new list member who overreacted | to | > what was essentially a joke. | | New people should stay out of it until they have a feel for what's going on | here. Showing up here and then within hours of subscribing sending a token | "shame on you" message to the list is stupid. Period. | | > I like and get along with the majority of the people on this list, and I'm | > not intending to anger anyone. I can understand the bashing of certain | > people (Beth comes to mind immediately, for those who remember her). But | I | > don't understand why it seems like some of the 'oldies' are trying to run | > off half of the new people to the list. | | You've never tried to break into an existing circle of friends or into a | tightly-woven clique have you? | Because some of us just get really tired of dealing with people who might be | intelligent enough to get by in the real world but don't think beyond the | first layer or two of brain cells. The simple act of reading the header info | on an e-mail before you send it and BEING CERTAIN OF WHERE IT'S GOING WHEN | IT LEAVES YOUR OUTBOX being a prime example. Publicly asking to be | unsubscribed when the MAJORITY of e-mails that hit the list have the unsub | info tagged to the end is another (and for the record it's been pointed out | to me, privately, that this is not a universal rule - messages going to | AO-HELL don't always get it - however, the original control message that | confirms your subscription also has that info leaving even the AO-HELLers | among us without excuse). To unsubscribe or change your preferences for the Creed-Discuss list, visit: http://www.winduplist.com/ls/discuss/form.asp